Dual spec

[Emetheus]

A dual spec option (within a chosen advanced class) has been confirmed to be on the list of features to add shortly after launch.

[xLUCIOUSx]

I read this on the forums earlier to, glad to see it will be implimented. Now what i really want is for better pvp rules on pvp servers. There should be griefing and there should be premade teams that are allowed to que with each other, i hate how all the cry babies complain about going up against premade's when it is a fuckin PVP server, if they dont like it they should fuck off to a PVE server.

It will annoy me greatly only being able to que with 3 other DROW members instead of 7 or 15 or how ever many the pvp maps allow, i mean this is the whole reason i joined DROW so i could play with the best gamers and kick arse. I just hope Bioware come to their senses and allow such rules on certain PVP servers.

[Darkeros]

Another win for the casual gamer....

Lol PVP casual--It is carebear pvp. Open world pvp is all griefing because there is nothing to be gained absolutely nothing...

Why instead of end game gear grinds can't they throwback and have tree point grinds @50 on a steep curve so that there is a reason aside from loot to play on.

And how about some EPIC quest lines something that EQ did well. Gear that actually was time involved and wasn't made trivial by the next expansions first green quest.

If you give the casual gamer the opportunity to dual spec. Give me the hard core gamer the ability to grind out every talent point max out every tree and the opportunity to earn the title of MASTER or DARTH.

[kaifus]

The dual spec is really gonna help out Sorcs and Agents that want a heal build.

As for group queuing, its a double edged sword. The warfronts support either 3 or 4 groups and if you form a 16 man raid to queue, the would only allow you to queue against other 16 man raids. You would potentially sit in queue for a long ass time unless they implemented cross server warfronts which they have not confirmed.

There is a ton of work that needs to be done on the Open world PVP and you can tell that it is an afterthought to Bioware at this time. They seem to be concentrating more on the story moreso than PVP balance (as shown by the endless CC). Thats not to say they couldn't do something TRULY epic with it.

They could easily do something similar to Warhammer and implement forts and bases, etc. Give us something to fight for. As it stands now, PVP is meaningless as Dark said.

[Darkeros]

Why can't people have 2 of the same toon one a PVPer and one a PVEer. It used to be this way. It destroys half the content and reason for someone to continue to play. In other games you had to make a PVPer if you wanted to PvP.

After AoC and Rifts quick lvl progression I hardly had a reason to log in. If I can defeat the content with the gear on my back why do I need to bother with the gear I can gain. Which is trivialized with an expansion.

Why do they have fixed factions --why can't I choose who to align with by my actions. Fixed 2 sided faction destroys content as well. Not to mention it could ruin a server if there isn't mandated balance.

Aside from Biowares story telling this game seems to be shaping up into World of Star Wars in every way. The same fucktards that ruined Vanilla are turding The Old Republic before its even launched.

Give me a reason to log in everyday. Whether it be character progression or the ability to trade items between an alt (ie Twink), an epic quest line, something other then grinding out gear whether its PVP or PVE its all there is at lvl cap. Which is just boring....and why games are falling flat on their faces one after another.

[kaifus]

Betrayal is an interesting avenue and could conceivably work depending on race.

For example, a cyborg IA could betray Empire and move to the Smuggler line on the republic. That could work. Does it make sense that a pureblood Sith Inquisitor could move to a Jedi Sage? Not really.

They still need to do some work on PVP. I will say it again. This is a PVE game first with some Warfronts and lopsided OPVP thrown in. It is not set up as PVP first with some PVE questlines thrown in (Warhammer). PVP is essentially meaningless at this point IMO. The gear isn't any better than you get while PVE questing and doesn't provide any PVP enhancements.

[Darkeros]

There is alot they could do. Why can't Sith and Republic group together at some point to vanquish a greater evil. It plays out like that in the books they have published on the time line. One thing I hope doesn't happen is the inability for cross faction communication.

Hard set factions shut down an avenue for content and a reason to log in day after day.

I will still play the game if just for the story but I really hope they find a gimmick to keep me logging in day in and day out.

[Miokhistan]

There is alot they could do. Why can't Sith and Republic group together at some point to vanquish a greater evil. It plays out like that in the books they have published on the time line. One thing I hope doesn't happen is the inability for cross faction communication.Hard set factions shut down an avenue for content and a reason to log in day after day.

I will still play the game if just for the story but I really hope they find a gimmick to keep me logging in day in and day out.

One thing im REALLY REALLY hoping they dont do. Cross-faction communication makes useless open-world pvp useful. It did in SWG, it made every battle count because you knew you would see that/those player(s) in town later, and that they would most likely be talking smack, provoking more battles. If people can talk shit to each other it makes battle mean more, if only a little more.

But honestly i think you will be able to communicate cross-faction, i base this thought off the announcement of neutral player hubs. Which they described as a place for both factions, but there could just be a line down the middle, rebs allowed on one side, imps on the other. Either way i agree with you, cross-faction communication is very important. The fact that MMOs dont do it anymore really grinds my gears

[Mammon]

Aside from Biowares story telling this game seems to be shaping up into World of Star Wars in every way. The same fucktards that ruined Vanilla are turding The Old Republic before its even launched.

Give me a reason to log in everyday. Whether it be character progression or the ability to trade items between an alt (ie Twink), an epic quest line, something other then grinding out gear whether its PVP or PVE its all there is at lvl cap. Which is just boring....and why games are falling flat on their faces one after another.

yup, and it's looking more and more like I wont be playing this game . . . which pisses me off because I was REALLY hoping something decent would come out soon, I NEED SOMETHING. So tired of the typical BS catering to the crybaby casual bitches who want to start all PvP battles with "Good Luck Have Fun" FUCK THAT, I hope you have a miserable time and die a horribly painful death at my hands, you scrub pig fucker!

[rends]

Think I read in the official forums that cross-faction chat (outside of standing right next to them and read chat bubbles) will not be implemented. And BW is working on the dual spec and don't believe if they established if it will be in game at launch or not--but it will be implemented.

The days of grinding for xp and farming raid bosses for that special gear are quickly coming to and end (if it's not here already which I think it is). All games now are tailored to the masses-casual gamers with no more than 4hrs game time per day 20 hours total per week (referencing numerous vendor sites). The truth of the matter is free to play with micros is the next phase--that is if consoles don't take over. It all comes down to targeting specific customer range and the vendor's bottomline.

I've given up gripping about the passing of eq, van etc ( Im miss those alot)--times are changing so the only option we have is play or find something more constructive to do :) Anyways, give a brutha a beta key already!

[Miokhistan]

yup, and it's looking more and more like I wont be playing this game . . . which pisses me off because I was REALLY hoping something decent would come out soon, I NEED SOMETHING. So tired of the typical BS catering to the crybaby casual bitches who want to start all PvP battles with "Good Luck Have Fun" FUCK THAT, I hope you have a miserable time and die a horribly painful death at my hands, you scrub pig fucker!

+1


I'm still playing either way though. I'm trying to be optimistic

[colonblaster]

Think I read in the official forums that cross-faction chat (outside of standing right next to them and read chat bubbles) will not be implemented. And BW is working on the dual spec and don't believe if they established if it will be in game at launch or not--but it will be implemented.

The days of grinding for xp and farming raid bosses for that special gear are quickly coming to and end (if it's not here already which I think it is). All games now are tailored to the masses-casual gamers with no more than 4hrs game time per day 20 hours total per week (referencing numerous vendor sites). The truth of the matter is free to play with micros is the next phase--that is if consoles don't take over. It all comes down to targeting specific customer range and the vendor's bottomline.

I've given up gripping about the passing of eq, van etc ( Im miss those alot)--times are changing so the only option we have is play or find something more constructive to do :) Anyways, give a brutha a beta key already!

consols taking over? that will never happen unless they relese a new PS ,X-box every year.
PCs rule cos upgrades always win

[boozer]

Have to grudgingly admit I have been closely watching this games progress. I'm an old guy who actually stood in line for 6 hours to watch the very first movie of the series. You know, the one with Mark Hamil. Were talkin late 70's/early 80's here I think. Long time ago. Anyway, the more I read/research, the more I think I will be staying with Warhammer at least for a while. The game sounds very interesting for you pve care bears though.

[Emetheus]

Have to grudgingly admit I have been closely watching this games progress. I'm an old guy who actually stood in line for 6 hours to watch the very first movie of the series. You know, the one with Mark Hamil. Were talkin late 70's/early 80's here I think. Long time ago. Anyway, the more I read/research, the more I think I will be staying with Warhammer at least for a while. The game sounds very interesting for you pve care bears though.

I am hoping it turns out to be the best of both worlds. The story lines are awesome (like the KOTOR series). I really dont care about end game raiding (ie your are not going to find me doing pve for hours at a time, I have better shit to do) but looks to be some end game pvp focus with the PVP planets (a good framework to expand upon).

[Darkeros]

Have to grudgingly admit I have been closely watching this games progress. I'm an old guy who actually stood in line for 6 hours to watch the very first movie of the series. You know, the one with Mark Hamil. Were talkin late 70's/early 80's here I think. Long time ago. Anyway, the more I read/research, the more I think I will be staying with Warhammer at least for a while. The game sounds very interesting for you pve care bears though.

Lol Carebear PVP--you lose nothing, no items, no experience no nothing. It's not full loot not partial loot not even the gold you had nothing.

You can hardly call pve carebear when your style pvp is carebear too.

There is no difference in your pvp from a first person shooter respawn die lose nothing QQ about how someone is cheating and shit aint balanced --push this take that --log out. Same shit different genre.

True PVP is full loot experience loss if you aren't playing that. Carebear is what you play.

[rends]

True PVP is full loot experience loss if you aren't playing that. Carebear is what you play.

I feel ya but we will never see that again. Gaming is customer satisfaction based and the generations are becoming more pussified every year. Me personally, having to refarm gear/coin etc for everytime I die in pvp would get old quick.

[Emetheus]

Lol Carebear PVP--you lose nothing, no items, no experience no nothing. It's not full loot not partial loot not even the gold you had nothing.

You can hardly call pve carebear when your style pvp is carebear too.

There is no difference in your pvp from a first person shooter respawn die lose nothing QQ about how someone is cheating and shit aint balanced --push this take that --log out. Same shit different genre.

True PVP is full loot experience loss if you aren't playing that. Carebear is what you play.

War pvp was (is) still pretty good. Now is it the days of Ultima......no, and honestly glad it isnt. It is called PVP. Player vs. Player, its not player vs player with penalties. Hell even full loot / xp loss is carebear in the light of a perma death option. Its a game, go out there smack some folks around and have fun doing it. Never quite understood those that had such a raging hard-on for game penalties (pve or pvp) ..... I dont know about you but I would rather be doing something a bit enjoyable with my time. Anything outside of that is called work, which I get paid for. Personally I enjoy the player vs player skill/group coordination challenge to the I have better gear / I need to waste my valuable time type of pvp.

[Mammon]

Lol Carebear PVP--you lose nothing, no items, no experience no nothing. It's not full loot not partial loot not even the gold you had nothing.

You can hardly call pve carebear when your style pvp is carebear too.

There is no difference in your pvp from a first person shooter respawn die lose nothing QQ about how someone is cheating and shit aint balanced --push this take that --log out. Same shit different genre.

True PVP is full loot experience loss if you aren't playing that. Carebear is what you play.

We call that Ogame and we would even kill you while you were off line if you werent careful

[Darkeros]

I feel ya but we will never see that again. Gaming is customer satisfaction based and the generations are becoming more pussified every year. Me personally, having to refarm gear/coin etc for everytime I die in pvp would get old quick.

As old as boring assed mini games with nothing to lose? When PVP is modeled after fps pvp no loss no changes nothing why would anyone want to play. Warhammer does not have the hearts and souls of the PVPer hence its shitty numbers.

If you don't have to size up your opponent check your inventory and gear to see if winning the battle is worth it or if running is the best choice its not pvp. Its fps shooter gayness log in play a few matches log out. And it's as casual as it gets. If you are worried about your score or kill points and not losing all your shit you are mounting a blue unicorn in a field of rainbows.

[rends]

I hear ya bro but again I think those days are gone. I personally can't think of a current game that follows the old school perma-death ruleset. Me personally, I don't slouch from the one v one but I prefer the small unit tactical pvp. You can have the best gear in the game and still get your ass kicked by a another player if you got weak skills. Gear is only an aid. Sure it helps but in end it's on you.

[Emetheus]

As old as boring assed mini games with nothing to lose? When PVP is modeled after fps pvp no loss no changes nothing why would anyone want to play. Warhammer does not have the hearts and souls of the PVPer hence its shitty numbers.

If you don't have to size up your opponent check your inventory and gear to see if winning the battle is worth it or if running is the best choice its not pvp. Its fps shooter gayness log in play a few matches log out. And it's as casual as it gets. If you are worried about your score or kill points and not losing all your shit you are mounting a blue unicorn in a field of rainbows.

Were you on the Warhammer team? We had a blast and had a very pvp centric / smash face team. Warhammer's issues were far from someone losing something when they die. Balance was the games biggest ssue from the start. Unfortunately in MMO's you often only get one shot at it to win hearts.

[colonblaster]

what was this thread about again?

[Moordecai]

what was this thread about again?

IDK but +1 LOL

[Darkeros]

Were you on the Warhammer team? We had a blast and had a very pvp centric / smash face team. Warhammer's issues were far from someone losing something when they die. Balance was the games biggest ssue from the start. Unfortunately in MMO's you often only get one shot at it to win hearts.

There was a time carebear meant something--it was the unwillingness to lose what one hard earned.

Balance and cheating is the first QQ of the competitive PVPer no different from a FPS or a MMO.

In a full loot PVP game. If your toon can't seem to hold on to anything for to long you ARE A SHITTY PLAYER.

In your casual PVP game everyone is a winner. Time is the only deciding factor in when one attains the ubber PVP set nothing more. So it's just a boring assed pointless grind. And as casual and carebear as it gets.

[kaifus]

In your casual PVP game everyone is a winner. Time is the only deciding factor in when one attains the ubber PVP set nothing more. So it's just a boring assed pointless grind.

He summed up Warhammer pretty well with that statement :)

[boozer]

There was a time carebear meant something--it was the unwillingness to lose what one hard earned.

Balance and cheating is the first QQ of the competitive PVPer no different from a FPS or a MMO.

In a full loot PVP game. If your toon can't seem to hold on to anything for to long you ARE A SHITTY PLAYER.

In your casual PVP game everyone is a winner. Time is the only deciding factor in when one attains the ubber PVP set nothing more. So it's just a boring assed pointless grind. And as casual and carebear as it gets.

Hey, I could not agree more. The fact of the matter is though that that type of game never existed in truth because most people don't find that level of cut throat action fun when they stand to lose more than they gain in a fair fight, so the very few games like that in the past always devolved to fights that were one sided or watered down with prearranged conditions. The only true pvp game around anymore is EVE, where when you lose a fight, you lose more than just your ship and a few million ISK. You can stand to lose months, even years of time spent grinding skills if you forget to update your clone.

I don't see anything (yet) in SW that meets your definition of "true pvp" either, more's the pity.

[boozer]

He summed up Warhammer pretty well with that statement :)


During the brief time you played the game Kaifus, I would partially agree with you. Right at the release of the Skaven patch, I would have definitely agree'd with you. Now, not so much.

[Emetheus]

There was a time carebear meant something--it was the unwillingness to lose what one hard earned.

Balance and cheating is the first QQ of the competitive PVPer no different from a FPS or a MMO.

In a full loot PVP game. If your toon can't seem to hold on to anything for to long you ARE A SHITTY PLAYER.

In your casual PVP game everyone is a winner. Time is the only deciding factor in when one attains the ubber PVP set nothing more. So it's just a boring assed pointless grind. And as casual and carebear as it gets.

Lol. So much wrong with this, too little time. I simply hope you do not play SWTOR.

[Darkeros]

Well, in this imaginary world of yours where some game once existed entirely based on your definition of "true pvp", I would probably still totally disagree with you. The only game that even gets close to that mark anymore is EVE and even that game is still strongly based on time spent grinding skills, or paying someone else with more skills to do the dirty work for you :)

Back on topic. I don't see anything (yet) in SW that meets your definition of "true pvp" either, more's the pity.

Evergame pre WoW had pvp like I was talking about. With some sort of loss. If all your pvp experience is WoW or Warhammer you have 0 business using the term Carebear unless of course you are referring to the PVP you play.

And sadly The Old Republic is just the same old lame WoW Warhammer AoC lame assed pvp no consquences and a badge/kill point gear grind.

I will play no consequence PVP but its hardly rage worthy and no big deal the best anyone can do is grief me from completing a quest the thing is though while they are griefing me they are getting nothing done either.

[Darkeros]

Lol. So much wrong with this, too little time. I simply hope you do not play SWTOR.

Really balance the problem. A true PVPer roles the PVP class..one class owning face and you don't roll that class but instead troll the forums begging the world to change around you.

Nothing wrong with my opinions. Everthing wrong with the watered down gayness you wish pvp to be.

I could spend zero time and give you a pvp game with no lvl grind consequences or need to do anything other then pvp. It would be a barren empty game much like your beloved Warhammer or any outdated FPS.

I will be playing the OLD REPUBLIC but not for the fail pvp minigames. And I certainly wouldn't play a whole game based on a failed pvp minigame.

[boozer]

Evergame post WoW had pvp like I was talking about. With some sort of loss. If all your pvp experience is WoW or Warhammer you have 0 business using the term Carebear unless of course you are referring to the PVP you play.

And sadly The Old Republic is just the same old lame WoW Warhammer AoC lame assed pvp no consquences and a badge/kill point gear grind.

I will play no consequence PVP but its hardly rage worthy and no big deal the best anyone can do is grief me from completing a quest the thing is though while they are griefing me they are getting nothing done either.


Sorry, changed my post right after posting because it did not reflect my thoughts very well. I have played pretty much every PVP game over the last 15 years or so and they do not hold a candle to the level of cut throat pvp in EVE. I suggest you try that game if you like the idea of losing your backside in every fight you get into. In that game you stand to lose real life skill grinding time, because in EVE, you grind skills based on real time, not game time, and if you die without a current clone, you lose it all and go back to newby land. That's not even taking time spent grinding ISK to get your ships and equipment setup and losing all of that, on one fight where maybe things just don't go your way for a host of random reasons not having a damn thing to do with skill.

True PVP is not about what you lose if you lose. Never has been. Its about being the best you can be, contributing to your teams success, and winning fights. Real PVP games get you to the action as quick as possible and keep you in the fight for as long as you want to continue fighting other players. Gear does occasionally interfere with game play, but in WAR at least, that is remedied as quickly as possible to keep as level a playing field as possible to encourage people to get out there and keep fighting.

[Emetheus]

Really balance the problem. A true PVPer roles the PVP class..one class owning face and you don't roll that class but instead troll the forums begging the world to change around you.

Nothing wrong with my opinions. Everthing wrong with the watered down gayness you wish pvp to be.

I could spend zero time and give you a pvp game with no lvl grind consequences or need to do anything other then pvp. It would be a barren empty game much like your beloved Warhammer or any outdated FPS.

I will be playing the OLD REPUBLIC but not for the fail pvp minigames. And I certainly wouldn't play a whole game based on a failed pvp minigame.

Eh you'll be gone in 30 days or less anyways. Nice chatting with ya.

[Darkeros]

Sorry, changed my post right after posting because it did not reflect my thoughts very well. I have played pretty much every PVP game over the last 15 years or so and they do not hold a candle to the level of cut throat pvp in EVE. I suggest you try that game if you like the idea of losing your backside in every fight you get into. In that game you stand to lose real life skill grinding time, because in EVE, you grind skills based on real time, not game time, and if you die without a current clone, you lose it all and go back to newby land. That's not even taking time spent grinding ISK to get your ships and equipment setup and losing all of that, on one fight where maybe things just don't go your way for a host of random reasons not having a damn thing to do with skill.

True PVP is not about what you lose if you lose. Never has been. Its about being the best you can be, contributing to your teams success, and winning fights. Real PVP games get you to the action as quick as possible and keep you in the fight for as long as you want to continue fighting other players. Gear does occasionally interfere with game play, but in WAR at least, that is remedied as quickly as possible to keep as level a playing field as possible to encourage people to get out there and keep fighting.

Sorry I just get alittle mifted when the term Carebear is thrown around. There is a difference between PVP EQ, Ultima, SWG, Darkfall and what passes for PVP today. If there is 0 consequence I don't see the difference between someone who plays the whole game pve/pvp vs someone who just pvp's.

And your right the Old Republic isn't going to be anything special when it comes to PVP but its Star Wars and Bioware and for me that's enough.

[rends]

Man I miss SWG something fierce. That was funtimes. Didn't have a steep xp penalty but it fucked your armor and gear up bad to at least make you think about your fighting situation.

This game just needs to come and and when start grouping up together and crackin' skulls it'll be fun again.

[Darkeros]

Eh you'll be gone in 30 days or less anyways. Nice chatting with ya.

The captain going down with the ship is cliche. I have hung out in shitty games "waiting for their awesome full potential to be realized" which never comes.

Biowares rich story telling is why I will be playing which is 90% of the game concept. I will be playing for a long time to come.

I am not the fool hearted PVPer that will QQ forever cause their 10% of game mechanics isn't 100% of the game.

Unless of course EA puts a boot on Biowares neck and the QQ comes in mass so much so that they remove story all together because the masses that enjoy dual-spec and dungeon finder want World of Star Wars. Then like Bioware(if they have the back-bone) I will be gone in a flash.

[Alteran]

It might benefit some people to calm down. It's a game with no real life consequences aside from worsened physical health. No matter how a MMO does PvP, it will never have "real" consequences. Having more in-game consequences and threat of lost time/effort may create a more stressful and careful/meticulous experience, but it is still fake, so the whole carebear vs hardcore argument is pointless. Play for your own happiness. For most here, being highly competitive and achieving highly makes us happy. Drow could probably create a highly competitive team in Mario Cart lol; we can be competitive in anything; we can be the best of the best whether we are risking loss of armor/levels or merely our ranking/reputation.

As a side note, most people with a values-set that places importance on competitiveness, commitment, determination, success, etc, as seen in Drow teams, are people who maintain those same values in real life with careers, families, and real-life goals. So I imagine most of us would lose interest in a game that requires days of grinding in order to re-gear/level a toon in order to get back to competing at the highest level after a maybe 30 second fight that didn't go your way, or even due to a simple connection issue.

[Emetheus]

Drow could probably create a highly competitive team in Mario Cart .

I will rape you with a turtle shell!!!!

[colonblaster]

As a side note, most people with a values-set that places importance on competitiveness, commitment, determination, success, etc, as seen in Drow teams, are people who maintain those same values in real life with careers, families, and real-life goals. So I imagine most of us would lose interest in a game that requires days of grinding in order to re-gear/level a toon in order to get back to competing at the highest level after a maybe 30 second fight that didn't go your way, or even due to a simple connection issue.

I have never held down a job for longer than 6 months,Unemployed and proud of it.Even tho i have the time ,I hate grinding .... much prefer "winning"
Tiger Blood!