Situation Report: Patch 1.1 (Mid September)

[Siyx]

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/554901



Balance Changes

We have several balance changes in store. One general change we're making is that friendly units will no longer provide vision after being killed. Enemy units previously revealed will no longer be targetable. Now let's break down the additional balance changes we're implementing.



Maps

We're going to be adding destructible rocks to the Desert Oasis map to make natural expansions easier to protect. In addition, the center map watchtower area is being narrowed.

Protoss

We have two key changes in mind for the zealot: the build time is being increased from 33 to 38 seconds, and the warpgate cooldown is being increased from 23 to 28 seconds. Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels, particularly those that rely on rapidly assaulting an enemy base from nearby "proxy" gateways. We feel the window players have to scout for and fend off this rush is too small. We also want to address the problem of protoss being able to dump minerals a bit too quickly with the combination of warpgates and Chrono Boost.

Terran

There are several changes in the works for terrans. Reapers against zerg are stronger than expected. Due to the zealot build time increase, reapers would be a bit problematic in combination with proxy barracks, bunkers, and/or marauders against protoss. Therefore, we have decided to increase the build time of reapers as well from 40 to 45 seconds. Fast reaper + bunker, or fast marine + bunker rushes are problematic against zerg. Although this rush would never outright destroy the zerg player, we feel zerg suffers too much of a disadvantage from either having to cancel the fast expansion, or getting trapped inside the main base for too long, so we are also increasing the bunker build time from 30 to 35 seconds.

Siege tanks in large numbers are performing too well in all matchups. In the mid- to late-game, siege tanks are too dominant against all ground units. We want a small set of light and unarmored ground units to perform better against siege tanks. With this in mind, we're changing the Siege Mode damage of the siege tank from 50 to 35, +15 vs. armored; to correspond with this, damage upgrades will be changed from +5 to +3, +2 vs. armored. This change reduces the base damage of the siege tank against light and unarmored units, as well as the splash damage.

Battlecruisers currently lack good counters from the ground and still perform very well against a wide array of unit types. We're aware that it is not easy to get battlecruisers out for the cost, but at the same time, it is possible in both 1v1s and team games to create stalemate situations to bring them out. Overall, we feel that battlecruisers are too strong for their cost, and the terran-forced stalemate situations are causing less interesting gameplay. We will be lowering their damage against ground units from 10 to 8.

Zerg

Ultralisk damage is being decreased from 15, +25 vs. armored to 15, +20 vs. armored. This reduction is comparable to the changes being made to the battlecruiser and siege tank. Like the battlecruiser, ultralisks are simply too powerful for the cost, even though they are difficult to muster. Also, in combination with other units, ultralisks are difficult to counter from the ground. The ultralisk building attack (Ram) is being removed because the damage rate is too similar to its normal attack, which will be used against buildings instead. When ultralisks target tightly packed smaller buildings such as supply depots, the Ram attack is actually outputting considerably less overall damage than its normal attack, as Ram only hits a single target.



And Beyond...

We are reading your posts on the forums and creating lists of features and bugs to address in future patches. We have mid- to long-term plans to further evolve the Custom Game experience, and soon, enhance our social features with the addition of chat channels. We will be sharing more specific information in the coming weeks. As with all of our previous games, we will support StarCraft II for many years to come. Your feedback and participation is critical in making this not only the best game it can be, but also the most engaged gaming community in the world. We look forward to the implementation of patch 1.1, as well as sharing our plans for our future gameplay and Battle.net features.

We'll see you online!


Delicious, delicious Terran changes!

I think the Zealot build time increase from Gateways is a good change, I'm not so sure about the 5 second increase on WG cooldown, that could have adverse late game effects but we'll have to wait until it's deployed to see.

[Loopah]

Good shit. Siege tanks are so very OP.

[Demolition]

Not sure I like the zealot change tbh, its going to alter my bo a bit as I am just barely getting the zealot out as it is to wall off against zergling rush. That might be the hingepin that makes sure poping out 4 zerglings vs toss asap and sending em can make for an easy win.

I'm sure its just a matter of updating our buildorders to account for that fact but some maps are already fairly hard to protect with the large ramps.

Oh, and I love the siege tank nerf. That one is long overdue :P

[Tivia]

So 5 seconds added to zealot..ok fine. But 5 seconds added to warp gate cooldown? comon..it was already bloody hard enough to stop the freaking terran Bio ball of doom.

[Demolition]

So far vs the bioball I like to catch them out of position at a choke with some colossi and sentry, just ff the choke and let the colossi do their work. Then again I am still in silver league so I haven't faced diamond or play terran players.

[Aldriana]

In the later sections of the game it basically just means you might need to add an extra gateway. Annoying, but hardly crippling. I think the biggest losers here are a) 2gating (as they intended) and b) early midgame pushes (notably 4gate). Admittedly early gateway/robo type pushes were pretty strong so I suppose it's not totally unreasonable to weaken them, but given that those pushes (or the threat of them) are a large part of transitioning into a stable mid/late game, I am a bit worried about how that's going to work if the efficacy of those pushes is reduced.

[Tivia]

My concern is the early game marine/marauder push. Right now due to the timing on an efficient build, T can push right as stim is finishing and roll any build that doesn't have 4 sentries perma blocking the ramp. This is long before collosi are out and pretty much right as the first immortal comes out if not a little before.

Really it just comes down to stim..marauders are just flat too powerful with stim. If they are going to keep it, I still maintain that stim needs to be changed to a % based hp reduction and not a flat hp, that way it affects marines and marauders equally.

[Demolition]

Yea really early marine marauder pushes are deadly if your not prepped for them. And on the maps where your ramp is pretty big like scrap station you already have troubles blocking the ramp perma till colossi are done. Then again on scrap station you do have extra time before the hit comes, if at all. I know a lot of people favor early harass with banshee on that map so far in my experience.

[jonish]

the only change i dont really understand is the ultralisk.

Ultralisks BLOW. ultralisks get shredded by marauders even in large amounts.

A 200/200 terran consisting of nothing but MMM will shred an ultralisk/roach/hydra/zergling combo all day long with ease. I play zerg , and have watched enough high level tournament play to laugh about letting a game go that long as a zerg player unless you are drastically out microing the other player.


marauders and reapers still need to be nerfed. Reapers just need a speed nerf. Once they get the nitro packs it is fine because you spent the money to get the speed but they are way too fast before that. It mandates a zerg player to go mass zergling and get the speed just to make sure you dont get murdered by reapers early on, and with the nerfs to tanks it is 10x more likely to get mass reapered which was just as big a problem but not used to much in high level player because of players insane micro ability at tournament level.

[Aldriana]

I can't comment on ZvT, but in ZvP Ultras are quite useful - they're expensive and slow to transition to, but once you get them you dish out some serious hurt. If the P doesn't have a decent stack of immortals (or an all-air army) and you get half a dozen ultras out, you basically just win.

[Talifey]

It all depends. If the Terran engages the battle and stims and focuses Ultras, you're done. If the zerg initiates the battle and has fungal or a ton of speedlings to flank and the terran goes 'oh god' for just a second and holds off stim the zerg will win. I've got plenty of replays of my ultras running into marauder tank and just tearing them to pieces because they decided to move along my creep without killing tumors and I caught them from the perfect angle. But I still think its an unwarranted Nerf. Yeah Ultras are fucking tough to counter. But they're meant to be. I hate seeing ultras stim focused down like nothing by a bunch of marauders, that stupid, since Ultras are our only + armor bonus they should be in the list of marauder counters.

Plus most people just keep making MMM even after they see Ultras, rather than throwing in cloaked banshees or BC's (because no Terran ever techs to BC's vs Zerg.) So I never see the counters in games, so I have a hard time understanding why they need to be nerfed. I just hope there are some actual zerg buffs in the full patch notes. And reapers need to be taken down like 5 pegs they're so dumb.

I was watching CellaWerra practice against GSL r64 people last night, and every terran opened reapers and under professional control he lost every game. He'd always hold off the reapers from doing to much damage, but the the MM push comes and he'd crumple. Watched like 8 games of that. Nerf the fuck out of reapers.

[jonish]

reapers speed is the issue. They do alot of damage but they cost alot as well so I think that is pretty balanced. My issue comes with the fact you have no shot in hell of catching them even on creep until you have speedlings.

I think a big help to zerg would be to fix the amount of larva spawned from a hatchery. It should not be a max of 3 units. As zerg you HAVE to out macro your opponent just to keep a force building. IMO larva should keep spawning continuously. Not cap at 3. If there is an injection from a queen then no , no more continue to spawn that would be rediculous, but having to do a full micro with your army while having to select your queens then select each hatch is crazy when oppositing armies just have to use a set hotkey for groups of buildings and click.

Maybe there is just someway of doing this im not aware of as zerg but I havent found it.
hotkey for queen , V , mouseover inject hatchery , repeat for however many hatcheries you have.

[Talifey]

Bind all your queens to one hotkey, and keep each one by a hatch. Select the queen hotkey, hit v, inject, hit backspace, that will take you to another hatchery, v, inject, backspace, v, inject. You can do it super fast using shift v which would go queens > shift v inject > backspace > click > backspace > click. But the shift method is pretty hard to pull off really even the pro's don't do it.

Oh did you mean from the wireframes? You used to be able to but they removed that...cause they hate us.

The problem with reapers is everything. Light bonus destroys zerglings, Queens are far to slow despite the fact that we're constantly being told they're T1 units, reapers are to fast, they can abuse terrain all day, and if you run your zerglings away from being slaughtered they start one shotting your buildings with half the DPS of a ultralisk against buildings 20 minutes earlier.

[Aldriana]

I think a big help to zerg would be to fix the amount of larva spawned from a hatchery. It should not be a max of 3 units. As zerg you HAVE to out macro your opponent just to keep a force building. IMO larva should keep spawning continuously. Not cap at 3. If there is an injection from a queen then no , no more continue to spawn that would be rediculous, but having to do a full micro with your army while having to select your queens then select each hatch is crazy when oppositing armies just have to use a set hotkey for groups of buildings and click.

Everyone has to micro and macro at the same time, and Zerg is hardly the only race that can't do it entirely via hotkeys (see: chronoboost, warp gates). Basically, larva generation is incredibly fundamental to the racial balance of zerg, so any attempt to fiddle with it would create far more problems than it would solve. That, plus the fact that it's not at all clear there even *is* a problem in that respect, makes it seem incredibly unlikely that a change of that sort would ever be considered.

To be clear: I'm not asserting that Z doesn't have some issues right now. Simply that the need to macro and micro at the same time doesn't strike me as one of them.

[jonish]

Everyone has to micro and macro at the same time, and Zerg is hardly the only race that can't do it entirely via hotkeys (see: chronoboost, warp gates). Basically, larva generation is incredibly fundamental to the racial balance of zerg, so any attempt to fiddle with it would create far more problems than it would solve. That, plus the fact that it's not at all clear there even *is* a problem in that respect, makes it seem incredibly unlikely that a change of that sort would ever be considered.

To be clear: I'm not asserting that Z doesn't have some issues right now. Simply that the need to macro and micro at the same time doesn't strike me as one of them.

not saying having to macro and micro is an issue clearly everyone has to do that. My point was that there is fundamentally more macro involved playing zerg than the other 2 races. Zerg unit generation requires alot of attention to be able to keep up. While protoss can use the chrono boost to speed up bringing out units it isnt nearly as big a problem to miss chrono boosting a gateway or say a stargate as it is to miss an injection as zerg because you are overly focused on army micro.

[jonish]

Bind all your queens to one hotkey, and keep each one by a hatch. Select the queen hotkey, hit v, inject, hit backspace, that will take you to another hatchery, v, inject, backspace, v, inject. You can do it super fast using shift v which would go queens > shift v inject > backspace > click > backspace > click. But the shift method is pretty hard to pull off really even the pro's don't do it.

Oh did you mean from the wireframes? You used to be able to but they removed that...cause they hate us.

The problem with reapers is everything. Light bonus destroys zerglings, Queens are far to slow despite the fact that we're constantly being told they're T1 units, reapers are to fast, they can abuse terrain all day, and if you run your zerglings away from being slaughtered they start one shotting your buildings with half the DPS of a ultralisk against buildings 20 minutes earlier.

didnt know about backspace , ill try that out

[Demolition]

not saying having to macro and micro is an issue clearly everyone has to do that. My point was that there is fundamentally more macro involved playing zerg than the other 2 races. Zerg unit generation requires alot of attention to be able to keep up. While protoss can use the chrono boost to speed up bringing out units it isnt nearly as big a problem to miss chrono boosting a gateway or say a stargate as it is to miss an injection as zerg because you are overly focused on army micro.

Chrono boost is the only way P can keep up with zergs macro early on. If we miss one thats a probe or 2 less. In the later game its the only way we keep up with army considering any zerg even on 2 base can have a min of 6 larva to insta pop into army. Granted you have a cool down on it but guess what.... Terrans and protoss have a cooldown on how soon we can make another set of units too. I really can't agree that increasing the cap on larva spawned would be a helpful balance.

I must ask if you have played another race besides Zerg competitively as it is really really easy to sit and consider your race as weak compared to the other 2 when you haven't tried playing them at all.

[Aldriana]

I do think it is a reasonable observation to say that of the macro mechanics, spawn larva is the most powerful and thus the most important to not screw up. But I also think that's part of the racial identity - if you're good at and/or focus on your macro, you can build gigantic ravening swarms of units beyond what the other races can dream of, but the penalty is that if you suck at and/or neglect macro, you get hosed. Zerg really is sort of a race for macro players at some level. And I think that's fine. If you're not a macro player, there are two other perfectly good races to consider. It's just important to remember that while the macro may be easier, there are other ways in which P and T are harder. In short: it's not a question of which race is the easiest or hardest in general, it's a question of which is the best/worst fit for your personal skill set.

[jonish]

Chrono boost is the only way P can keep up with zergs macro early on. If we miss one thats a probe or 2 less. In the later game its the only way we keep up with army considering any zerg even on 2 base can have a min of 6 larva to insta pop into army. Granted you have a cool down on it but guess what.... Terrans and protoss have a cooldown on how soon we can make another set of units too. I really can't agree that increasing the cap on larva spawned would be a helpful balance.

I must ask if you have played another race besides Zerg competitively as it is really really easy to sit and consider your race as weak compared to the other 2 when you haven't tried playing them at all.


ive played both , granted not nearly as much as zerg.

The larva idea was just another consideration rather than the standard "buff this" or "nerf that" mentality.

It plays more into the swarm mentality of "kill you with numbers" As a whole i think zerg units should be cheaper , produce faster but be weaker. It plays into the overwhelm them with numbers mentality that zerg has at the onset of the game and in the campaign.

[Loopah]

In short: it's not a question of which race is the easiest or hardest in general, it's a question of which is the best/worst fit for your personal skill set.

Couldn't agree more.

[Demolition]

ive played both , granted not nearly as much as zerg.

The larva idea was just another consideration rather than the standard "buff this" or "nerf that" mentality.

It plays more into the swarm mentality of "kill you with numbers" As a whole i think zerg units should be cheaper , produce faster but be weaker. It plays into the overwhelm them with numbers mentality that zerg has at the onset of the game and in the campaign.

But your suggestion is in the nerf this buff that mentality. You wanted to buff the larva cap of zerg. :)

Honestly I think we as players should just embrace the game as it is in its current state and figure out how best to win with the units as they are now. Blizzard will iron out the kinks as they go, we just need to enjoy the game as it is and patiently wait. :)

[jonish]

But your suggestion is in the nerf this buff that mentality. You wanted to buff the larva cap of zerg. :)

Honestly I think we as players should just embrace the game as it is in its current state and figure out how best to win with the units as they are now. Blizzard will iron out the kinks as they go, we just need to enjoy the game as it is and patiently wait. :)

If i was that patient I would still be playing the shitstorm that was warhammer 2 months after its release.

[Cybsled]

Unless your base is being swarmed by hordes of reapers as a zerg (unlikely), a sunken colony or two will take care of any light reaper rush in conjunction with a few lings to keep them away from the sunk.

[jonish]

Im still hovering around in gold since I dont play much 1on1. I have just been playing alot of random 3v3 particularly, but at least in 3v3 you get a reaper in your base before my spawning pool even finishes half the time. I had to modify the normal opener build of 14 pool to compensate for the rediculous cheese rushes that occur in 3v3 play. It also depends on where I spawn how i react early on.

If anyone wants to do 2s / 3s 4s as a crew let me know. Catch me on and I am more than likely down to play.

[Demolition]

Well yea in 3s and 4s it almost seems like the name of the game is to pick one opp's base and all rush it early to take it out. If you can take out one of your opponents before he can get going its 2v3 or 3v4 and the games in the bag already. Pretty cheesy tactics but I guess whatever gets you the win :P

[Telos]

Unless your base is being swarmed by hordes of reapers as a zerg (unlikely)

What game are you playing bro? I couldn't count the number of times I've been pushed with ~15 reapers that just suicide into my base to one shot key tech structures and run away with whatever he didn't lose. The Terran may do this once or twice and then come steamrolling through your front door with mass stim Marauders.

You personally might not get reaper massed down there in Bronze league, but the assumption that it doesn't happen at all is anecdotal.

[jonish]

What game are you playing bro? I couldn't count the number of times I've been pushed with ~15 reapers that just suicide into my base to one shot key tech structures and run away with whatever he didn't lose. The Terran may do this once or twice and then come steamrolling through your front door with mass stim Marauders.

You personally might not get reaper massed down there in Bronze league, but the assumption that it doesn't happen at all is anecdotal.

hell with the tank nerf it is going to happen 10x more often because now alot of the players that may have been avoiding "cheesing" before are just going to abuse reapers more.

[Cybsled]

Getting hit by 15 reapers isn't a rush...that takes awhile to build up. That also means he went all tech-labs most likely, which means no reactors so he can't build up a marine force quickly (or isn't even bothering to pump them except maybe a token marine or two), plus he's probably not making marauders.

With proper scouting you could hit him early and hard...going hard reaper rush leaves the terran's base pretty exposed. A cluster of roaches and speedlings, with a queen, would be able to fend off a reaper assault on your main well enough. Obviously the map matters...some are perfect for reapers (your mineral line has a jump-point right behind it), but others require the reapers to jump up and travel a ways to the base. If you can fend the reapers off long enough, you can work your way to mutas then it's GG since now his reapers are worthless vs. air. Obviously the rough part is they can keep you contained at your main since they can try to assassinate a quick expansion since you're less apt to have as big a defense force there.

[Demolition]

Cyb your response is on the assumption that the reaper harass is to kill your mineral line. The post before you is all about making just enough reapers to single shot a tech building and then quitting reaper prod and going traight into marauder.

Soon as you have the reapers you suicide em in, kill the palyers key tech(spire morphing in) or robo for toss or w/e and then run away. You can replace the couple of lost reapers and repeat and its just sick to face because they don't try to stay or attack your probes/drones at all. They pop in hit the building and pop right back out.

[Tivia]

Unless your base is being swarmed by hordes of reapers as a zerg (unlikely), a sunken colony or two will take care of any light reaper rush in conjunction with a few lings to keep them away from the sunk.


What game are you playing bro? I couldn't count the number of times I've been pushed with ~15 reapers that just suicide into my base to one shot key tech structures and run away with whatever he didn't lose. The Terran may do this once or twice and then come steamrolling through your front door with mass stim Marauders.

You personally might not get reaper massed down there in Bronze league, but the assumption that it doesn't happen at all is anecdotal.

At this point I have lost track of the number of ZvT streams i have watched where the T did nothing but pump reapers the entire game and win. These are high diamond streams as well. It has really hit the point of outright pathetic that the only way a Z can reasonably beat down T is to 7 pool cheese unless the T actually plays standard (Never happens).

[Talifey]

The first feature and balance patch release for StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty will be available next Tuesday, September 21. The maintenance period will begin at 5:00 a.m. and last until approximately 11:00 a.m. PDT. You can read all about our plans for patch 1.1 in the

Woot. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/785430#blog

Man I can't wait for a path notes, maybe I can start playing again without wanting to kill someone.

[Tivia]

Woot. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/785430#blog

Man I can't wait for a path notes, maybe I can start playing again without wanting to kill someone.

Major SC2 patch and FFXIV Launch date on the same day...meh Looks like a no sleep day.